Hi Everyone:
For this post, consider something that one of your peers shared regarding Jane Eyre chapts. 1-15. Use their comment to deepen the discussion, extend the discussion, or politely disagree and offer alternative interpretations. Also: was there something you had wanted to say but didn't get a chance?
During our discussion regarding Jane Eyre chapters 1-15, a topic that stuck out to me was the paranoia that Jane always seemed to have. We discussed how this theme kept on reappearing throughout the book. When Jane was a little girl she was punished by being forced to stay in a room. Here, she terrified herself with the thought of the ghost of her uncle visiting her. The ghost of her uncle did not end up appearing but a good portion of the book was taken up just by her thoughts of if it did. Later when Jane was humiliated in front of her entire school for being a so-called liar, Jane had the belief that all of her classmates now despised her when really they hardly cared and if they did it was just pity for her. Even when Jane was an adult she still spooked herself more than the usual. When she had begun to work at the Thornfield Estate, before she had known what Mr. Rochester looked like, she saw a man come towards her on a horse who later turned out to be Mr. Rochester. To most people this wouldn't be an event out of the ordinary but the way Jane set the scene made the situation seem dreary and unnatural. Perhaps this was to stir the emotion that Bronte wanted the reader to associate Mr. Rochester with. Either way, it made me associate Jane with paranoia. However, a Jane Eyre that didn't over-think everything would make for a boring novel so I understand the reasoning behind this attribute.
ReplyDeleteDuring our class discussion on Jane Eyre, Katie Latassa mentioned an idea that seemed very important. She brought up how at the very beginning of the novel, Jane said ¨There was no possibility of taking a walk that day.” (page 1) Though this sentence is very abrupt and to the point, further reading shows how Jane basically never wanted anything to do with bad weather outside. She would rather be alone in her room, not outside where other people would be. As Jane grew throughout the novel, she soon disliked being around people a bit less. She would actually carry out conversations with people like Mr. Rochester. There were still times though where she liked to be by herself. Katie mentioned how later in the book there was a scene that conflicted with the sentence about not wanting to go for a walk. It was when Jane offered to take a letter to the post office for the woman she was staying with at Mr. Rochesterś house, even though it was very cold and snowy outside. The fact that Jane actually wanted to go outside is a great example of the little ways Jane is developing throughout the novel. In a way, it shows that Jane started to look past the gross parts of life and would rather take in the positive surroundings.
ReplyDeleteIf I were to pick something that someone said during the discussion to respond to it would be when we were talking about how Helen was in a way a “sacrificial lamb”. This to me is a theme seen continually in the book, not only in this one instance. Helen’s death was something that was awful that happened to Jane, but after her death everything got better and was moving rather progressively for Jane. Something like this also happens after the move made by Miss Temple, the superintendent of the Lowood school. Following her leave from the school, Jane was miserable and felt that she was more alone than ever. But her leaving was the reason that Jane decided to take a step for herself in the right direction and made the moves to get herself where she is currently. The other time this happened was before she left Mrs. Reed’s. Jane was put in the red room, where she had a traumatic experience, but this experience was followed by Bessie showing some care and love for her. Jane’s trauma and negative experiences are what caused her good, her suffering ends up in reward, but unfortunately for Jane this falls into a cycle never leaving her happy for too long.
ReplyDeleteDuring our classroom discussion concerning the first 15 chapters of Jane Eyre someone brought up Rochester and we spoke of his personality. He is a man, quite lonely like Jane, living in a large mansion with no lover. This is one of the reasons that I believe he is very drawn to Jane. You can feel the tension throughout the book; tension that seems romantic in a sense. Though he enjoys speaking to her, he often puts her down and builds himself up to something he is not. However, I feel as though he does this because he is insecure with his lonely self and does not want Jane to know how sensitive and secluded he really is. In this way, he puts up an aggressive fascade, seeming confident in himself. He uses this confidence to intrigue Jane, making him more and more mysterious. She must question the fact that he is a confident man living in such seclusion. Though he is aggressive and often rude, Jane seems to enjoy his company, as well. They have an unusual relationship, part of which may be due to the fact that Jane has never had a romantic figure in her entire life. She does not know how to approach a relationship and does not pick up on the hints he seems to leave her.However, I feel as though if Jane were to pursue a relationship with Rochester she would be trapped. He is very controlling and, her having to romantic experience, would become attached to him, the only male figure in her life, never leaving him no matter the consequences.
ReplyDeleteOne particular topic struck a chord with me during our discussion of Jane Eyre. I guess I didn’t add it up or took into consideration, but during Jane and Mr.Rochester’s conversations, they speak of topics that could go against one's morals. It usually included jealousy, desire, passion, adventure, and knowledge. All of these aspects unknown or wanted by Jane. She curious and intrigued to learn from him and from others of these topics. But she knows more than he believes she does. Mr.Rochester looks down upon Jane because of the lack of diversity in her life. Though, he pushes her to against her morals, too look past everything she was taught to believe is good and right. Jane is quick to fall into his trap. Jealousy, adventure, and passion are all things Jane feels as though she hasn’t experienced first hand. She questions her morals and everything she has learned at Lowood. Jane has always wanted more. She’s always seeking things that are uplifting or bring a change into her life.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that stood out to me in our class discussion was the fact that Jane is prone to find comfort in those who are put in a similar situation as she was as a child. For example, when Jane is at Lowood, the only person she seems to relate with is Helen Burns. This is because Helen was much like Jane. She was perceived as a defying child, she isolated herself and felt alone most of the time, and she experienced that same life at Lowood as Jane did. Also, when Jane finally left Lowood and moved to Thornfield with Rochester and Mrs. Fairfax, Jane took on the role of guiding a child as, for example, Bessie and Ms. Temple, had guided her when it was needed. At Thornfield, she guided Adele and acted as a model for her. She found comfort in Adele, because Jane did not have parents and Adele had no good relations with her parents so they could connect off that topic. Also, when Jane was young, she was mentored through certain stages of her life just as Adele was. Jane struggled as a child with loneliness, and she turned to others that experienced similar issues as she did to cope with this emotion.
ReplyDeleteOn our first day of discussion for chapters 1-15 of Jane Eyre, we discussed why we thought Jane was so drawn to a dreary lifestyle. It was mentioned that Jane’s dark outlook on life could be a result of her treatment over the years. The point that someone made that really stuck out to me however, was the fact that at the beginning of the book, Jane is mentally alone, but by the end of chapter 15, she is more physically alone. As a child, Jane was constantly surrounded by her abusive cousins and relatives. She even made a point of trying to be alone (as we see right from the beginning). However, when she is locked in the red room, she suffers a different kind of solitude when she feels abandoned by the adults in her life. When she first travels to Lowood, she is ecstatic to meet new children, but she still manages to isolate herself, sometimes through no fault of her own. Even when she is surrounded by all the girls at Lowood, she is still alone in her own state. As time passes, and Jane gets a job with Mrs. Fairfax, she embarks on an independent journey. This time, she promises herself that she will not fall back into her childish ways and ignore people. But when she reaches Thornfield, she is greeted by a new kind of loneliness. Surrounded only by a little girl, her fellow servants, and the occasional Mr. Rochester, she is more physically alone than ever. She tries mightily to combat this feeling, but it only gets stronger when she realizes her affection for Rochester. The way Bronte writes her book gives a very one-sided look at the situation and I think that encourages this tone. I doubt that Jane will change who she is, but I don’t think this will happen because of her childhood. Though Jane suffered a hard life, she had plenty of time to see and analyze a lot of things, and that gave her an intelligent outlook.
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ReplyDeleteDuring our Jane Eyre discussion for chapters 1-15, many great pointers were made that I hadn’t thought of when reading through. One particular thought that I wanted to add on to was the concept of Mr. Rochester pushing Jane to think similarly to how she did as a child, and how she may have reflected on her old life because her lifestyle so drastically changed during the years that she was at the institute. During her life at the institute, Jane was primed to be a civilized young women with a variety of skills to assist her in the world. During which she was most likely influenced to think a certain way. As a child, she was always one to revolt passively, and then more rambunctiously before the summarized time she spent at the school. She would resist the social standards that were forced upon her, from being overpowered by John Reed and abused, to the education that she was resisted when she first came upon the institution. Helen Burns was a primary figure in her younger days because she provoked Jane to think about more heavy concepts, such as the gratitude that one should have for a simple life and the pennants that are often associated with it in order to enjoy the simple pleasures. Even indirectly, making her ponder the existence of an after life after she succumbed to the illness that plagued the school, in an environment that preached the word of God. Mr. Rochester, in their discussions, pushes Jane to voice her opinion and makes her dig deeper in what she truly believes, as he did when they were discussing the philosophy of equality and aged entitlement. I do believe that Mr. Rochester is a force, who although is troubling at times, is necessary to progressing Jane’s major characterizations.
During the class discussion on chapters 1-15 of Jane Eyre, a peer brought up the relationship between Jane and Rochester. After considering their relationship for a while, I found the way that they behave towards each other to be very interesting. The standard relationship between men and women in this time period was very strict, with women always falling second to men and their desires. Women were expected to answer to men with the sole intention of pleasing them, giving no thought to the way that they felt. Jane Eyre, however, tests this standard constantly in her relationship with Rochester. When the reader is introduced to Rochester, we see that he is an unsure, moody man. Jane, being the stubborn, strong spoken, straightforward, woman that she is, tests his inconsistency. She does not do things, nor does she sugar coat things, just to please him. She tells it how it is, good or bad. This sole idea puts Jane well ahead of her time, proving women to be just as prominent and important as men. This breaking of a social boundary, as well as the many other boundaries that Jane breaks throughout the book, is a key idea to seriously consider whilst moving ahead in the reading.
ReplyDeleteBecause my class is so small I got to talk about everything that I had really wanted cover in that discussion. I did not disagree with anyone but I do wish that we talked more about romanticism and how this book played a large part in the era. In that discussion we talked a lot about the content of the book and the underlying meanings but not how people perceived the book and how we perceived in in a different age. Even though I do think that talking about characters and plots is a lot more fascinating, the reason why Jane Eyre is a classic novel is because of the time that it was written and published was so indifferent to the ideas within the book. I would want to talk about the difference between the audience today and back in the 1800's and how this book might have had a great influence on the times. If someone were to write a book presently that had the same effect on the audience that Jane Eyre did back in the 1800's what would that book contains and would people receive it differently.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why it says Unknown but I'm Julia Horne and I'm too tired to fix it
DeleteI don't know why it says Unknown but I'm Julia Horne and I'm too tired to fix it
DeleteIn our discussion class, we thoroughly explored many ideas in the book. Two of them seemed to be the center of our discussion, one being the young character Adele, and the other being how social class hierarchy/rankings are exemplified throughout the book, which both ended up being tied together as well. When the author is talking about a person, one of the first things he usually will mention is there wealth, and generally the more money or riches they have, the higher up they generally are in society. The family Jane lives with in the beginning of the book is known by many people, and they are also extremely rich and have a lot of money. The whole class system seems to bother Jane because she does not know where she would fit in, and Jane hates it. She seems to hate all the rich people, describing them as selfish and arrogant, yet she also would not rather live amongst the poor. In those times, there was no real middle. You either were filthy rich or dirt poor. Jane disliking both of these aspects displays how she does not fit into the normal culture or lifestyle during this era, which also causes her daily worry because it bothers her that she is out of place in society, or different from others. This is interesting though, because she does also pride herself on being independent from the normal culture. Adele on the other hand is the “innocence that speaks”, or in other words, a child who often has wise sayings in the most odd times. Adele is this child who speaks French, is originally from France, and seems to know nothing of the English world, the english culture, yet this is why she is such an important character. Because she knows nothing, she is able to hold an almost unseemingly unbiased view of the English culture and English ideas, deeply affecting the evolution of many characters. It seems as though Rochester pushes her away because he does not want to intake other’s opinions, and is nervous of what Adele says to challenge the norm of English culture.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that I was interested in during the conversation was the relationship between Jane and Mr. Rochester. Someone said that Mr. Rochester tries to change Jane back to the way she was when she was a child, and tries to to change her confidence and sense of self back to how it was before she excelled at Lowood. I think this shows the struggles of class and feminism at this time because the only time that she was free was when she was at the school, and was surrounded by other girls all in a common situation. When I was reading, I noticed how Jane changed when she went from the Reid’s to Lowood. She seemed to grow freer and freer, and more confident. Her personality goes from being grim and pessimistic to being free and willing to experience the world. In a sense as she grows older her sense of self and outlook on life grows younger and younger. Lowood gave her the confidence and acceptance in a society that she needed to be inspired to work and get out of her position in life. Then she meets Rochester, and he is confusing, and sometimes condescending. In the discussion it was said that this causes Jane to start to revert back to her old self; she is sad and gloomy. While I think this is sometimes true and highlights the differences of classes that this book sometimes points out, I also think that because of Jane’s growth at Lowood, her quick wit and the way she speaks her mind she is able to stay away from completely going back to the way she was at the Reid’s. She is able to move on from that, and not repeat it because she understands the way people think and is not afraid to speak her mind. Her freedom has grown and she is not willing to let anyone take that away from her.
ReplyDeleteThe comparison of Helen to a “sacrificial lamb” is something that stuck with me after our class discussion on Jane Eyre. Helen's death in the novel is a turning point for Jane, as she leaves everything that Helen represented behind her. Helen is a quiet, serene, almost saint-like type of character and she has a way of accepting the restrictions placed on her. Not that she accepts the idea of oppression, but she is too gentle and forgiving to do anything to break these boundaries. With her death Jane lets go of letting people walk all over her and allowing people to confine her to what they believe she should be. She becomes more able to challenge other people and stand up for herself. In that way Helen is the catalyst that creates Jane's new attitude and her desire to have her own voice and her own opinions. This part in the story was very interesting, because it shows the next step in Jane's social development. Helen was Jane's first real friend and even though they have vastly different beliefs, the two were able to connect in a way that positively impacted Jane's individuality. Jane was able to determine a stronger sense of her own beliefs by witnessing another person's.
ReplyDeleteDuring our class discussion we discussed a lot of what had gone on in the book and even the smaller but more powerful characters like Adele and Helen. To me the biggest thing that we discussed was the idea of Jane just being a normal average looking girl and discussed her character and how she acts and what make Jane, Jane. Looking at the character for what they stand for instead of their beauty is something that I feel every reader should do, and discussing Jane and how she socializes and her views towards how she doesn't want to be rich but she also doesn't want to be poor and how the other character even shaped her.
ReplyDeleteA part of the class' discussion that I found to be an important part of Jane Eyre is her independence, specifically how she worked her way to independence. What was mentioned was that Jane started the book with the help of Bessie. This role of guiding Jane was then taken over by Ms. Temple in Lowood. As the story progresses, and Jane leaves the school to work for Rochester, she no longer needs a helper, and she is on her own. Bessie was indeed a supportive character in the beginning of the book. She gave Jane a sense of hope, and wishes her the best of luck with her future. To add to Ms. Temple being the second supportive character, I believe she shared this role with Helen. Although Helen was dubbed by our class "Sacrificial Lamb," she did impact Jane in a positive way. Helen and Jane could connect with each other through the feeling of isolation. They both had to endure punishment, but they responded in different ways. Helen preferred suffering in silence while Jane believed in standing up for what's right. The two girls could not fully connect since they had opposing views on this aspect of life. However, Jane did benefit from this because listening to Helen and her beliefs of forgiveness and perseverance for punishment got her thinking. With this idea rather new to her, she had to determine whether to agree with Helen or stick to her original beliefs, which were established when Jane stood up for herself to Ms. Reed. Jane chose to continue believing in what she had previously, and through this process she became more confident in her views on life. This kind of confidence is what helped her gain the independence that she shows after Lowood. So life did seem better after Helen, it was still good before her death.
ReplyDeleteDuring Jane Eyre’s discussion from chapter 1-15, one of my classmate’s comment was that Jane Eyre was able to interact with other people after she went to school, but the irony behind this is that most of the important people is either dead or away doing other things that were on their agenda. In the beginning of the novel, the mysterious “red room” was mentioned and I thought that the “red room” symbolizes Jane’s imprisonment and isolation from the outside world. Jane felt that she was being isolated by others, but in reality Jane was the one that was isolating everyone. Another comment that was interesting was the similarity in Jane Eyre and Wide Sargasso Sea. Both the characters are very similar, but it is like the author is telling us two different stories or more like their own version of Antoinette, a character that was previously in Wide Sargasso Sea. In my own interpretation, I think that after the death of Antoinette, the story still continues but in a different novel, which is Jane Eyre. The novel picks up from what was left on Wide Sargasso Sea and continued the novel. Another great comment was about Jane’s challenges to religions. Mr. Brocklehurst and Helen Burns both represents a type of religion that Jane rejected the ideas and she formed her own ideas about faith, etc… I did not get a chance to talk about the dog and the horse that Jane had a dream about. When I was reading that particular scene, it gave off an eerie feeling and it was very mysterious. Jane had a dream about the dog and the guy that was on the horse and he was injured. When Jane went to Mrs Fairfax’s room, she saw the dog and it looked exactly like the dog that was in her dream. Pilot the dog belonged to Mr Rochester. Afterwards, Mr Rochester came home with a sprained ankle because he has fallen from his horse. The technique and the writing style that Bronte used specifically in this scene was beyond my imagination. I felt like I was being sucked into her world of fantasy because everything that she explained was so detailed and specific.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I found interesting during our discussion on the first fifteen chapters of Jane Eyre was the idea that someone brought up about Jane being alone and isolated. I liked this idea a lot because throughout the first couple of chapters I also noticed this theme happening and I also found it interesting that Jane was very selective with the people that she liked, which I believe leads to her isolation. In a way her isolation is her own doing and I believe that she is alright with being alone in her own way because she is able to choose the people that she wants to be with. For instance, Jane seems to gravity towards people who are like her in this way. Helen Burns was not exactly the most popular person at Lowood, yet she was the one that Jane found an interest in. My explanation for this is that Jane tends to like the people that have the same personality as her; which is reserved and mysterious. Because of her personality that is what makes her seem like a person who may be alone or isolated. In a way I think that people may have thought this was a bad thing, but in Jane’s case I think it is really just how she is as a person and if she was not like this she wouldn’t be the same character.
ReplyDeleteOut of all the things that my class brought up during the discussion, the comparison of Helen to a sacrificial lamb stuck out to me most. Though Helen was a good friend to Jane, that didn't mean Jane's life at Lowood was happy. After Helen's death Jane's life at Lowood got much better. Difficult experiences or disappointing changes in Jane's life tend to lead to positive changes for her in the long run. Despite the trauma that Jane's time in the red room caused her, it resulted in her being able to escape her horrible family and go to Lowood where she met her first real friend. When Miss Temple leaves Lowood it pushes Jane to pursue more in her life and she takes a job at Rochester's mansion. Though Rochester is not always the best when it comes to polite interaction, Jane is able to have real discussions with him that make her think and encourage her to speak up, which was something she was sometimes unable to do before. She has more freedom in her discussions with Rochester than she has ever had before. Jane and Helen had some differences in opinions, but that was something that allowed Jane to expand her views and develop as a person. Jane and Rochester also have differing opinions which will hopefully help Jane to grow even more.
ReplyDeleteDuring the class discussion the assertion that I found most interesting was Katey's, relating a part of the novel back to the beginning. She analyzed the portion of the book, then compared it back to the first sentence and talked about how Jane's attitude in the first sentence is reflected throughout the book. This was something that I hadn't thought about before, but I thought that it was very interesting so I tried to find more examples of this in the book and tried to see how Jane has either exemplified the mood she describes in that first sentence, or proves it wrong by having a change in attitude. In the first sentence Jane says, "There was no possibility of taking a walk that day." (page 1) which at first could be interpreted as if Jane wished she could take a walk but the storm prevented her from doing so, but when considering the blunt way that she said it, it seems more likely that the storm is preventing Jane from doing something that she could do, but doesn't particularly want to. This is the theme that I tried to connect other passages in the text to, the idea of Jane not always wanting to make the expected decision based on the views of others, or instances where she prefers something that seems unfavorable to other characters. One example of this is the freedom of speech that Jane uses with Rochester. There is an obvious difference in social classes between the two of them, but when Rochester asks Jane questions about himself Jane replies as if they were equals. She doesn’t try to be polite or worry about the fact that Rochester is her employer, she just answers honestly. This speaks to her firm stance on her independence. She will not allow her class or gender to define her, and refuses to do the expected or socially correct.
ReplyDeleteI was not here for the verbal discussion of the first fifteen chapters, so I have taken Emily’s blog post from September and responded with my own thoughts on what she said there instead.
ReplyDeleteThere is really nothing I can do but agree with Emily. There is no denying that Bronte is one of the best feminist writers of all time and is arguably one of the best female writers of all time. I like to think of her and J.K. Rowling as being on the same level, both of them sharing a love of fantastical stories of any kind, while also having strong female characters as their center points. Jane Eyre is an inspiring character, and I hope that every girl can learn from her experiences. Whereas I do sometimes worry that her story may become less and less relevant, merely because of the time period it was written, I am certain that the message will remain. I love that Emily made a point in saying that Jane’s responses to this prejudice change as she grows up because I feel it is important for people to understand that there are many different ways to respond to opposition. There is violence and verbal retaliation, like Jane used with her cousin and aunt when she was a child. There is silent revolt that she used while standing amongst the other girls of the institution, upon Mr. Brocklehurst’s orders. And then there is, what I and many others believe to be, the best response, which is a balance of both of those things. It is important to have some revolution in these types of discussions, but it is important to keep that type of revolt to a strictly verbal nature, (depending on your situation). When Jane was talking to Rochester, there was no need to argue with him or start a brawl with him, she merely just needed to speak her mind, regardless of what the repercussions may have been. Luckily, for her sake, there were none. But, there were times, like when Jane encountered Mr. Brocklehurst, that people are not as willing to listen to all sides of the story. My favorite quote from Emily’s post is when she talked about the event and said, “ How ironic it is that he has the natural state of the young girls altered because of his impositions when God would be expected to love all forms of his natural children.” Another point that is so important when talking about the feminine aspect of this book is how ridiculous the reasoning behind these men’s ideas were. Emily highlights this perfectly in this quote, and in every other discussion I have been lucky to have with her in any English class. I believe that her writing, and discussions of this book have been completely spot on.